Who Has No Life?
None
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Sundesmos Forum Index -> Officer Archive (Hate and Bey posts)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Anteres
SweeBeeps
Officer

user avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts: 339

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
Ryan had suggested earlier this week that we should re-evaluate our current policy on PvP gear in raids, and as someone with a new toon who is using said gear heavily as a crutch (and getting shittastic numbers), I absolutely agree.

Our current policy is pretty simple - blue pvp gear is bad, purple pvp gear is acceptable. In 5.0 / 5.1 when we set this up, it worked well enough, but the purple pvp gear was generally much closer to what an actual current raiding epic would be (most of it at the start of the xpac was conquest gear). With the ilevel discrepancies and a PvP stat, they're really inferior when compared to what's out there.

I don't necessarily feel we should worry about someone if they have 1 piece (we may want to consider the pvp trinkets are vastly inferior to real ones)merely because I would feel it could disqualify a larger portion of the raiding pool - but at what point is too much? Should Tyrannical / Conquest gear be given more leeway?

I don't think we need to change the rule for something like TOES 10 - It's easier and we run those raids to try and get people acquainted with 10 man raiding - so the experience of raiding is the most important thing (plus it gives us ways to see what people have issues with and where we can best help them).

All feedback is welcome!


_________________
The guild is not composed of heroes. Heroes are what the guild kills.

Nagram

user avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2012
Posts:

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
A large amount of pvp gear IMO is bad juju. Having a few pieces is no biggie. I JUST finally upgraded my boots from 496 pvp to the 502 5.3 quest boots (they were rated fairly high for my class. So I can see people using conquest pieces as filler until they get a superior piece.

Also relying heavily on pvp gear to me shows a lack of raid experience and drive to get up to snuff for raids. Which probably also correlates to their likelihood of them not doing the research they need to do on their class for pve and boss fights.

I think it's a judgement call for the raid leader at the end of the day. If we have a choice between someone who is decked out in pvp fear compared to a person with superior pve gear, I would take the pve guy and tell the pvp guy to work on his gear and prove he/she wants to be part of progression. They are wasting 9 other peoples' time if they aren't willing to put in the work and build a decent pve set.


_________________
Nagram the Warlock
Lealarea
Advisor



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 19

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
Since I was the one who brought it up, you probably have an idea of where I stand on this, but I'll explain my thoughts anyway.

In my opinion, someone having a piece or even two of 496 conquest gear (not including PVP trinkets or weapon) with solid PVE gear everywhere else is probably ok, but much more than that and performance will quickly start to fall off.

At this point in our progression, even one person underperforming and/or undergeared can be the difference between clean kills and a whole lot of death and frustration.

As always, I am more than willing to run LFR or other raids to help people get better PVE gear.
Soulard

user avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts:

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
I feel that if a someone has trinkets OR weaps that are pvp that right there is a no go. (I could prolly deal if they had just one pvp trinket.) But having 2 trinkets or the weap will kill their dps. As for the rest of the gear i do not really care about it. It, at least prior to 5.3, was only a hair less than pve gear of the same style. And some people just have bad luck getting lfr gear.

I would consider taking someone on a Tuesday with questionable gear, but absolutely not an untested person on a Wednesday when we all have to be firing on all cylinders or wiping.

On a side note, maybe i should start another thread on this but lets just see what ppl say here atm. What is an acceptable cut off for just bad numbers? At the time of it when I told Gaz he had to leave I felt really bad about it and I know some of the other raiders did not necessarily agree with it. However, looking back if a dps is below both the tanks we just cannot accept that as good enough to be on a progression fight.

That being said what would the line be? is it just a judgement call? Somefights there will be mechanics to take into consideration because some ppl get stuck with better or worse "jobs". But Mag is pretty straight forward for all the dps.


_________________

Anteres
SweeBeeps
Officer

user avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts: 339

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
I agree with your side note that that would be a good discussion to have, and in addition I would also like to propose that if someone is removed from a raid due to performance, that we have a way to set them up with help ASAP. I was in tells with Gaz almost immediately upon his departure and learned where a number of his problems were and set him on a path that's significantly boosted his DPS if his recent recount posts are accurate.

It's something that, if communicated, won't come as a surprise for people.


_________________
The guild is not composed of heroes. Heroes are what the guild kills.

Soulard

user avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts:

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
Side note thread started here


_________________

Nagram

user avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2012
Posts:

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with vengeance, being below a tank in dips means nothing, especially a Druid tank.


_________________
Nagram the Warlock
Soulard

user avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts:

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
tanks were 50-60k, and most other dps were pusing 100k. Im pretty sure tanks only really just up in dps when there are a lot of adds.


_________________

Deinari

user avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts:

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
Nagram wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but with vengeance, being below a tank in dips means nothing, especially a Druid tank.




On big ass boosted fights or fights will fuckloads of AOE, then yeah. There's a, sort of, theory of relativity about how you look at tank DPS vs everyone else's dps.

If you're below the tanks, but everyone else is too then there's probably nothing to worry about.
IF its /just/ you below the tanks, then maybe something's off.

That's at least how I tend to look at things and of course there's a million factors playing into how DPS translates.


_________________
Lealarea
Advisor



Joined: 05 Jan 2013
Posts: 19

Send private message
Reply with quote

re: Discussion: Re-Evaluating PvP Gear in Raids

0
I agree with Kaz on this one.

Vengeance for a single target fight like Magaera does next to nothing for tank DPS. Fights with a lot of adds on the other hand can boost the tank DPS significantly. The bats on Tortos for example bosted my attack power by 150-200k at any given time, plus I'm constantly putting out AOE damage. There were several attempt against Tortos where I was top DPS by a large margin, so comparing to tank DPS is definatley not always apples to apples.

I'll add the rest of my thoughts to the "What is underperformaing?".
Posts from:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Sundesmos Forum Index -> Officer Archive (Hate and Bey posts) All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
 
 
Site Contributions
1