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Beysii
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re: Ideas for consideration - Raiding

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#1 - So in looking for changes that can provide some solutions, Yorell came up with one that backfired on him when I called him out on it - participating as a raid leader.

Yorell has been an RL before and I have no problems with him resuming the role. I think his participation has a double benefit; it forces him to put his money where his mouth is in taking a more active role to change the tone and improve the raids. It also means there is some yin to the yang and I think would provide a good balance to ideas when he does put out.

Donbot - This is not meant to slight you in any way, we've had no issues at all with your performance as a secondary raid leader. In my mind, Yorell is more appropriate to change the tone back to a friendlier playing field because he has the experience of when the guild's focus was exactly that. The timeframe on how long hasn't been determined, and could lead to a shift out of the main raid if we go with Pineapple's idea in the future (see next statement).

Pineapple brought up the idea of doing two raid groups, with he and Don leading the 'main' group and Yorell and another running the second group. We've done this before with reasonable success - when we could fill two groups. We are still struggling to fill one. I think it's a good idea, but I'd like to get the main raid settled back down and flowing before we look to expansion.

#2 - Specifying certain nights as specific, progression nights.
I think this idea also has potential, but what would the specification and requirements be? A higher ilvl? A 'core' group? Is creating a core group kind of the opposite of the point with trying to improve inclusion?

#3 - Solidifying the Sunday raid as a third progression night.
I have no issues with implementing this immediately.

What have you all got?


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Yorell
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re: Ideas for consideration - Raiding

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In a sense, I wouldn't be against having Sunday as a set progression night where something more of a "core group" mentality could be assumed. Leaving both Tuesday and Wednesday nights as inclusion nights for people that want to raid or get into the raid mode. That way we gain a combination of both in the single raid group for now. Assuming that we can fill and can have the right people for Sunday raids.

As for what classifies them into that "core" mentality for the Sunday night, I would think that should be more left up to the raid leader or leaders for the week. I think for a progression fight theres a lot more involved than just numbers and statistics. It should be based off how the person is performing for the week (are they dying by standing in the fire? Are they consistently running left instead of right? Or even perhaps the person is not using cds at the right times or at all? Etc Etc) and also how well the person meshes with the rest. Having a downer in any type of raid setting definitely inhibits raid potential and morale. This might not rub right with some people who believe favouritism might be at play but its pretty difficult to put a set number or limit to decide "You're good".

As for the two raid groups idea, I wouldn't be against that more in the future. Its possible we could even use one group as a learning and getting familiar group while still downing bosses, while leaving the other group further progression based that people graduate to once they do great in the first raid. Which then brings up some issues of what nights to have the raids on, or one raid per night, or if people wanna go with one group if the other has no room for them, etc etc etc. But that can be discussed and hashed out in the future when the time comes.


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re: Ideas for consideration - Raiding

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2 groups. Lol.

Is that idea ever going to die? I haven't been here since Sundesmos's inception, but as long as I've been here its been an idea and failed miserably. Maybe an alt raid, sure we MIGHT be able to pull that off, but then how is that different than just adding another couple of raid nights


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re: Ideas for consideration - Raiding

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Yorell you are right on with that I was thinking the 2nd group would be for. I feel like with the laidbackness of this guild we have a semi unique problem - Going from lfr to 10 man is a bit of a jump.

And as far as populating the 2nd group I feel that we have enough weekenders and people who are always on anyways who would go on their alts that we could fill it.

Lastly I never really thought in too much extent about how the progression night thing would work but again I think yorell hit the nail on the head. the only thing else i would like to add to that would be possibly taking melee over ranged or visc versa if it works better for the mechanics.


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Yorell
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re: Ideas for consideration - Raiding

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Hahahaha! Yeah Nags, you're right. I cant remember a second raid group happening forever, and it lasting long if it happened. Its always been a dream and an idea thats been thrown around. Maybe we'll succeed in making it happen one day. But its gonna be complicated and require uber co operation from the raid leaders of both


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Anteres
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re: Ideas for consideration - Raiding

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I'd also like to throw out extending raids by 30 minutes to the "Let's at least talk about it" list. We can't start earlier due to multiple peoples availabilities, but going to 9:30 may not be terrible with summer here?

Edit: Idea amended below.


Last edited by SweeBeeps on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Yorell
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re: Ideas for consideration - Raiding

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I wouldnt be against extending it 30 minutes if everyone in the raid agreed to it. I'd like to seea vote done on a nightly basis. I dont want to keep people there longer than they want to be, that just makes it a chore. Not to mention doing it consistently can burn people out if they're already stretching themselves.


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re: Ideas for consideration - Raiding

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I've talked with a few people on it and have heard good points. If we've wiped on the same boss for a few hours, yeah, 30 more minutes most likely won't make a bit of difference.

If we're getting momentum on one, and we just need a few more tries, I think then we should put it to a vote to extend.


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Covinas
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Yep, nightly vote for extending regardless of where we are could be good. we've occasionally done that in the past when we are making good progress on a new boss. Most of us are ok with majority vote even if we do not want to continue and vote otherwise. Maybe we just keep the 30min extension dynamic. We won't always raid an extra 30 mins, but if the raidleader or majority vote thinks we are getting close and adjustments can be made to make progress, we then extend. Just make sure everyone is aware to plan on being there for 30 mins extra if we need to.


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re: Ideas for consideration - Raiding

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Id like this idea to be able to be applied any raid night. for example if we can get tortos down by extending Tuesday I think its better to start with Mag on wed and it just gives us a better spot for the week. Rereading this I feel that it may not make sense, so feel free to ask what my rambling meant.


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