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Yorell
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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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Alright. Read this all carefully and think fully on it. I don't want no massive explosions of anger, rage and hate because no one can think clearly and with sense.

I came back on WoW today to talk to people involved with the whole "Poaching Incident" that occurred a few days ago. And I've come to a big ass conclusion on this. We've had a explosion of anger and great fireballs over a few words and misunderstandings on a huge scale.

First off, Pine talked to Ant about having a core group. Okay, makes sense, not a bad idea, something to throw out there. When Ant refused the idea, Pine decided he was moving his Shaman to his old guild to do progression raiding with his friends. Okay, not too big of a deal either, not the best but acceptable. Then suddenly Phraxx talks to Ant, yes I have seen the photo, and the words Phraxx uses definitely implies that Pine was talking to multiple people. Which Phraxx then corrects after he says just him and Megatrn. I actively probed Pineapple about this point until I got a clear picture. Yes, he did talk to Megatrn. He only talked to Phraxx after Megatrn mentioned something to him, Phraxx wasn't supposed to know and only got involved by accident. Phraxx then decided he was going where ever Pine did along with Megatrn.

Pineapple didn't talk to anyone else about it, besides his RL friends. Not one.

Which can be supported by the fact that everyone who did get talked to about leaving didn't get talked to by Pine. Now we go onto the next part. Pine was getting who ever it was (I talked to Phraxx and I'm quite certain he was the one who did it) to do his dirty work. After screwing around getting info from both Phraxx and Pine. Phraxx was the only one who knew about someone talking to someone else about leaving. He even listed the names Gaz and Plumpz. He also said Plumpz wouldn't come because he just wants to raid and doesn't care as long as he raids. Pine, knew nothing. I actually showed him what Phraxx said and he went off on a "what the fuck" speel. He then went on to say it was his fault for not making those who knew not talk to anyone else about leaving.

And now we go onto the next part, Oh, he's just making this shit up and acting. First off, we all know Pine, he CANT ACT. Secondly, if his true intentions WERE to steal people from the guild and destroy it etc, etc etc. Then he wouldn't even bother talking to me. Nor would Phraxx. There would be nothing to gain from it.

And on the next note, Phraxx said he'd come back if Pineapple did. And Pineapple said he'd give deep thought into coming back if we had some kind of core group going. He actually said this place felt like home.

Now, in conclusion, we just lost a good raider and guild member over a perceived poaching incident caused by our interpretation of the situation and by the actions or non actions of others. Was there another way to go about this? Sure there was. But theres a first time for everything and not everyone does it right the first time. Nor does everyone communicate fully, even when talking directly to them, as can be attested to in my last great conquest that is filed somewhere in this forum.

From my outside view and unbiased opinion on this, Both sides fucked up. Now both sides should fucking make up. Even if that doesn't get them back.

And yeah, a lot of you might not agree and think I'm completely wrong. Maybe you should take a step back, cool down, and go talk to pineapple yourselves without bursting into a firey rage of twigs and pencils.

And Now to the next major point. We lost other raiders due to the same problem WE ALWAYS HAVE. We are a casual guild. We raid casually and try to include everyone. Well theres a lot of people out there that don't like that. Phraxx for example was upset people who just started were taking his gear. Pineapple wanted to do heroics and get achievements. Well now we have a fucking gold opportunity to make that happen. Pine said that many of the people over in his old guild, where he currently is, might come join us. Like I said, Might. Not to mention Pine clearly stated to me that he wouldn't come back anyways unless we had a type of "core group". Now we have the "I'm not giving into his demands just to have him come back" but we have a chance here to do something we have never done before. Keep hardcore raiders in the guild. If everything works out and those people over in Pine's old guild come with him, we could have not a "core" group going. But instead a hardcore raid and a casual raid. Thus offering the both options to who ever joins the guild. Both raids would obviously operate under different rules and standards but the casual group would still serve as a place to gear people, try out new people, and get them familiarized with the 10 man style of raiding. And while we're keeping the casuals happy, we're also having the hardcore group progress and gain us ranks in the world standings. Thus giving us more credit and a higher recruitment rate.

Now, we could all be dick heads and stay mad about how Pine and all this shananagans turned out. Or we could shove it in the past and start walking forward. We have a golden opportunity here to make Sundesmos bigger and better with far more versatility than ever before.


P.S. - I Hope Bey reads this and puts her two cents in too. Need some pants on to my pants off .


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RobO2112
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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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I, for one, don't care about any of this. Our main focus should be getting Hordemaster back.


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Deinari

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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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...I hope thats a joke about Hordemaster xD


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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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It's no joke; he was the heart and soul of Sundesmos. I won't be staying without his wisdom and experience. /gquit

And just so you know...

That was hard to even type with a straight face.


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lionseye
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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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Shenanigans...


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Yorell
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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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Oye oye oye! I'm dah king of Shanananagans around here!


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Meh. I'm not going to miss him. Maybe our raid team will feel more like a team again instead of pineapple barking about what he wants.


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Yorell
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Well, in total, I would like to see more posts like Nags with what they think. Its important to discuss it all out, the good, the bad and the ugly. NO BARS BARED!... I think that's the saying >.>


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Beysii
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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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Yeah, I'm only holding back because I haven't been around, but don't worry Yorell, I'll come for you. *cackle*


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Deinari

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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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Yay, a Bey post! <3


I said much of this to Yorell already but:

1. If they want their own separate core group, they might as well be their own guild. It's going to be the source of constant drama, which I'd much rather avoid. Its not about not wanting to give into "Pine's demands" it just makes more sense to me, personally.

2. Fuck Phraxx in general. I don't want him back in the guild if Pine/etc come back. He can stay the hell away, because there's definite malicious intent coming from SOMEONE and if its not Pine, it has to be Phraxx. JD has some screenshots of him talking to Plumpz and it makes him seem like he's definitely trying hard to suck members (heh giggidy) from us.

3. I'm so over this situation, I just want to hide under a rock for a couple years.


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lionseye
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suck members..


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Beysii
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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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Thanks for jumping in Kaz. I'm going to start backwards to sake of ease:

Deinari wrote:

2. Fuck Phraxx in general.


Yep.


On to Pine. Yorell, I 100% get where you're coming from, but what you don't have is the numerous conversations we've already had with Pine since he started raid leading. This is not the first mar on a shiny clean record, though to many people it may seem like it. IF {and in my mind it's capital letters too) he came back, at best would be as a senior member. If you guys decided to even so much as start a 'core' group, I would be against him even participating. I don't believe Pine tried to maliciously use Phraxx to take guild members - and I don't believe he had no involvement, either.

As far as a core group: This comes down to the same thing every time - numbers. Can you all support two groups without burning out? Because it will be you all that keep it going, and that's alot of time and effort. Each time we try a core group, people get burnt the fuck out. What's the bigger concern - slow raiding or no raiding? If we've got the numbers, golden. If we don't, I don't see how it will end any differently than it always has.

-Bey


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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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Core groups become elitist and very cliquey, very quickly. Which in turn creates unnecessary tension between core raiders and regular raiders who know or think that they're better than their counterpart. Which leads to: Drama.

That said, and I'm not aware of any such but, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that JD has gotten tells/e-mails about how unfair the normal raid group is and that it's always the same people going, even with it being open signups! Stop me if I'm wrong on that, please. But why would we deliberately exacerbate that?

If they were to come back into the Sundesmos fold, it would have to be in name only, and their operations would have to remain largely autonomous; but if that's the case, they should have their own guild stuff, bank, mats, etc., i.e. have their own guild. There's no reason we can't cooperate with them as friendly or even partner guild in the future, but an attempt to run dual hardcore/softcore (giggity) raid teams under one roof seems an invitation to strife and much, much, more guild drama.


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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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I just dont like the idea of "Core group" and "casual group" in the same boat. Julie hit the nail on the head earlier saying that they should just be their own guild. Im not saying this just to jump on the F theo and Phraxx band waggon, ive known Theo for years now, hes a good friend of mine and i still feel this is the right direction to take, IF he is allowed back, i think that the damage is done, and that maybe not 5.4 or 6.4, but the time will come again for a "core vs casual" feud again. thats my thoughts on the matter...

brought to you by "Taco for Advisor 2013"


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