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Yorell
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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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First off, it should be "Taco for Prez 2013" IMAGINE WHAT THE COUNTRY WOULD LOOK LIKE UNDER TACO RULE!

Now, I don't disagree with anything that's been said. I know all too well the shanananagans involved with having a core group. Theres drama, stress, shananagans on the uber level. Its just after seeing us hit this wall of casual raiding vs hardcore raiding and loosing people, I thought it would be viable to bring up another kind of solution to talk over. Most of this was on the theoretical level as it already was a big IF for pine coming back and a big IF for him actually bringing other people.

Perhaps its just not viable, ever, to have hardcore and casual raiders coexist in the same guild. As we couldn't handle our pro raider and uber druid Hordemaster .


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Yorell
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And yeah, I wrote that a little early in the morning. The thoughts are there, they just.. might not be in order lololololol


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Anteres
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I also think it's worth bringing up, we normally don't pick up too many hardcore raiders - generally I warn them very clearly that we are not generally a place they'll like - and in talking with one or two recruits that we brought in, someone (it sounded like it COULD have been Horde based on what I remember seeing on the "Who told you about us" on the apps) was trying to peg us as something we weren't.

With Dunemaul circling the drain we picked up raiders of all sorts because we were one of 2-3 places that still raided at all. We haven't even had to advertise, and still picked up additional people. IF people were joining us because we were one of the only places left to raid, then I'm not surprised to see them go (granted, many of my issue from the start has been HOW things happened).


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Deinari

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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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Beysii wrote:
Can you all support two groups without burning out?



There's a rather large discrepancy between the people who profess interest in raiding, and the people who actually sign up/show up for raids. I feel like the people who are "interested" far outnumber the actual people showing up on raid nights (correct me if I'm wrong), which makes me cringe at the thought of doing two separate raid groups.

Historically, it hasn't really ever worked for us. I'm not saying it never will, but history tends to repeat. Flex raids coming out (next week?!) gives us a little more wriggle room there, because we can just do one big giant raid instead of two, though that might not be the path Pine & Co. are looking to take.

The fastest path to burn out is making the game feel like a job. Most, if not all, of us work/go to school during the day, we don't want to jump on WoW and feel like we're back in our fucking cubicles. Managing and/or trying to participate in two raids, imo, would feel like I was taking on a second job. Some may disagree, but thats how I view it.


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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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Deinari wrote:
The fastest path to burn out is making the game feel like a job.


That is distilled truth. Most all of us are here for fun, to escape everyday drudgery, bullshit, and problems. To go somewhere, blow off steam, hang out with friends, and have fun. When playing a game is frustrating or stressing you out as much, or more, than the situations that pop up in your day to day life... Having fun? Yeah, you're doing it wrong.

Like I said, in the future, if they want to cooperate, say let some of their people come over to fill a raid, or borrow some of our best raiders for a 25m or whatever the hell they're doing... There's no problem with that. But trying to keep it all in one house would be an organizational nightmare.


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Anteres
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It sounds at the end that if we're going to do 2 groups it will be our normal 10 man and a Flex Raid to hopefully replace LFRs. We had a good turnout doing guild LFRs at the start of the summer (long after most people NEEDED the LFRs we were running), so hopefully we can translate this into some goodness for everyone (plus if we really need people to fill slots for Flex, we can consider taking Damesh up on his offer, as long as they're not overbearing).




Now I do have on additional question I want to ask everyone. Earlier this year we changed a long standing raid signup rule when we went to first come first serve for everything. Prior to this year, we had for four years, given priority night to night to people who were in the raid prior. This always worked well (and we had a number of people who would end up being able to make one night and not another, etc). At the very least this last week has raised questions about our process, and I want to see if we consider the way we're doing it the best way we can given our stated goals, desires and mindsets.

Do we want to consider reinstating this, or do we wish to continue on how it's been going, or are there any other options worth discussing on the topic?


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lionseye
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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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I do like the idea of if you made teusday, you should have priority on Wednesday if you sign up, it's worked in the past and believe it should still continue to work.


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Anteres
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We had to change to first come first serve in order to try and boost signups overall, but it may lead to a transitional problem related to subs that are needed not knowing to show up, etc.

Just food for thought.


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Nagram

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I've never been a fan of first-come first-serve without question. Giving priority to the group that was there the day before is fair to me.


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RobO2112
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re: Read This Seriously. And Cool Your Jets.

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To me, if you're raid locked, you're in, no question; barring being kicked out for bad behavior/ineptitude.


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