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Should we start cherry picking raid invites to finish ToT?
Yes. We need our A-Team.
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No. We should continue to go by signup time.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
We should wait before being more picky.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 4

Nagram

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So, I know I've been MIA a while and I don't want to just show back up and spout of demands. But I think it's at least worth the discussion. So if this has been discussed in my absence and I missed it, don't take this the wrong way please.

With 5.4 release getting closer and closer (I'm guessing late August/early September), the window for getting the ahead of the curve achievement for ToT is getting smaller and smaller.

You think it would behoove us to at least entertain the idea of cherry picking signups and bringing the most proven raiders along on progression nights? (Wed/Sun).

Unless people shit the bed, I see Durumu going down Sunday. I hear the lizard guy is a joke on normal as well as the twins. I doubt Iron Qon will give us a very hard time either. We're probably going to be looking forward to many wipes on Dark Anus and Lei Shen, so we still have some work ahead of us to clear ToT before next patch.

What do y'all think? It wouldn't be the first time we tightened our belts and got picky about invites in the interest of downing some harder bosses. I don't know some of our newer members that well, but we generally have a mature, understanding group of folks and I don't see it really causing any drama as long as we communicate it on the signup page, in forums and in-game (perhaps in gmotd) before the fact.

I don't know about you guys, but I want to jump right into Siege of Org (as well as finish ToT). I haven't been this excited for a raid zone ever! However it would be a shame to not finish ToT and abandon it before it's finished (which I wouldn't want to do anyway, but that's a topic for another day).

If we clear ToT pre-5.4, it's a win-win.


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SweeBeeps
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I think more than anything we just need to push through Durm, and extend raids some weeks when we have some fresh progress to make (ie. once Durm goes down I think we should push into the new content for a week to see what we can do).

We have been having better times with later content (one shotting JiKun the last few weeks, doing better overall oh Mag) which absolutely helps on the weeks when we want to GET to progression quickly, the fact we could conceivably by getting past Durm on night 2 is REALLY encouraging.


In terms of raider quality for progression, it's a mixed bag. Do you want to take Kiln on a Sunday when we're going full on into something new? Past performances make us lean to no, but if we don't have a full raid signup wise, we lack the ability to be picky. As long as signups are looking better when they can, it gives us more flexibility.

However, I will say we really should come to a decision on how we as the senior group want to handle someone like Kiln who can't seem to stay alive, period. We also need to be up front with him about it too (once we make a plan).


All in all I'll tie my rambling together and say:

1) I think having 3 quality raids a week (something we still have not been able to consistently pull off), coupled with extending when our sanity isn't in jeopardy, will be the best path to finishing ToT.

2) I'm not comfortable at all playing favorites with signups to stack a group in most cases, especially as we've done first come first serve consistently all year and it's worked. I'm not looking to dick over people who have played by the rules we have set forth regarding signups. I think the bigger issue becomes players with regular performance issues (the largest one that seems to come up are people who die /EVERY/ attempt to something stupid), and I'd like to get a discussion about that going as soon as we can to form a plan.

3) I had a third point, and I've completely lost it.


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Deinari

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SweeBeeps wrote:
3) I had a third point, and I've completely lost it.


^^ Lol, stoner ramblings. ^^

I'd like to not take new blood on Sundays/progression nights. I'm not even just talking about Kiln either, I mean new people in general. For a couple reasons:

1. We have to waste time explaining how to do the fight (which takes at least 10 minutes on Durumu, and something important always gets missed because we're fucking impatient :P) And explaining is almost a waste of time on Durumu because people won't understand beams for example until they experience it themselves ( a definite trail by fire fight)

2. Extra stress on them = them fucking up = us judging them harder = them fucking up more = ... you get the point. I would be super nervous about joining a raid thats working on progression, and I'm sure some of them are to some degree. We don't always judge these people fairly either

3. All that ^ Doesn't apply to everyone, but we should really have conversations with people before asking them to raids "We really need another X, I was wondering if you were available? Just so you know: we're on a progression boss, X, and you might experience a wipe or 38 -- are you cool with that?" Once thats out there, they can either rise to the challenge or voice any insecurities.


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I've always been of the opinion that progression nights are for the A-Team. Tron will tell you, when we ran vanilla we never just brought people into the progression content. If we were stuck on Vaelstraz or something in BWL, we wouldn't bring just anyone. If we didn't have the right people or couldn't fill the 40-man with appropriately geared people for serious attempts (which was rarely a problem) we wouldn't even bother. We'd instead work on getting non-geared people geared up from MC which was on farm status. Nowadays there are many more ways to get competent gear, but it probably wouldn't hurt to get more people working together in an easy 10 or even 25-man that we might only be able to field 18 or something for. Yeah, it's not progression, but it's practice, and it's team building. Something that was impressed upon me in the Navy, and I find is very true, is that you fight like you train. And if you can see consistent problems with people in an easy encounter i.e., not listening, can't follow simple instructions after several explanations, extremely low damage for ilvl, always taking excessive damage, loves to stand in puddles of shit, etc. you will already know you don't want to bring them along on the tough progression stuff.

Also, it's worth remembering that wiping is a part of progression. It's awesome when it doesn't happen, but it will happen. A 5 minute or less verbal explanation of the mechanics or watching a 10-minute youtube video will not make anyone a master at the fight, even if they are generally good players. We're human, mistakes happen, but we learn from them when we make them, and then we do better. Working as intended.

I will say that this is the first night I've raided with you guys during which the attempts did not vary wildly between better and worse. Every attempt, with very few exceptions, was at least marginally better than the last, we kept improving, and that's great to see. The past few weeks when I tagged along the attempts would start out good, then get worse, then get a little better again, then it was straight back down to terrible and we'd call it. Give me small consistent improvement over wild and sporadic performance any day.


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Soulard

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I dont see anyone really against the idea of getting the best team possible for progression ngihts. That being said we have basically a week ahead of us for just progression. I would like to start with tomorrows raid picking the people to go. Ill run by any decisions that im not 100% sure of in O chat. we all good with that?

tl;dr I wanna pick the A team from the ppl available on progression nights/weeks


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Donbot-Dunemaul
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I concur.


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SweeBeeps wrote:

2) I'm not comfortable at all playing favorites with signups to stack a group in most cases, especially as we've done first come first serve consistently all year and it's worked. I'm not looking to dick over people who have played by the rules we have set forth regarding signups. I think the bigger issue becomes players with regular performance issues (the largest one that seems to come up are people who die /EVERY/ attempt to something stupid), and I'd like to get a discussion about that going as soon as we can to form a plan.



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Soulard

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Kiln would be my main focus in this, its not fun for anyone having him on progression


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Right, and based on his lackluster performance, and constant death, that would be enough to merit it, but the RL needs to speak with him about that, and the concerns.


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Soulard

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I also would like to not take unproven people or people we have only had a night or so with before. but maybe thats just me


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