5.4 Raiding

[Anteres]

With 5.4 upon us most likely within the next 4-5 weeks, it's time we start discussing our raiding plans for the next content cycle.

We will soon have an option between 10 man raids and 10+ man raids (the new Flex raids), so there are a number of things we can try to do for these. Running both types of raids are optimal, but the elusive 2nd raid hasn't worked out for us yet in MoP (as much as I'll spout on about it), but Dunemaul has been a dicey place, and with cross realm opportunities, a solid recruitment push could help get us into a position for both.

However as it stands now (and as best as we can really plan), we currently don't have the manpower to staff both fully as I don't want to force raiders to HAVE to raid in both groups - burnout will abound. So I want to open the floor to options and ideas.

We could START by doing flex raids at the start to get as many people involved and see what we can do early on prior to turning sundays into a 10 man only day. We could turn into a full time flex raiding guild (which would be truly embracing our casual roots, but the loot isn't as good and we know we CAN do 10 man content well). Or we could do _________________________ (YOUR IDEAS HERE).

My vote is to start with flex raiding and transition into a full 10 man once we get our bearings on how things are working out / see how many people are signing up to raid. If we're pushing toward 17-20 people (taking into account current growth + anticipated growth), we could easily start to consider running two separate raids (possibly with overlapping times), but I am but one opinion.

What do you all think?

[Nagram]

T, W, Su = Normal raids. Business as usual. Sign up in time, get invited.

Any other day = Flex. Or Flex if we're short people and pug for healers/tanks or whatever. Then at least it's not a completely wasted night.

I personally enjoy the 10 man difficulty, loot system, etc. Call me elitist, call me selfish. But I would hate to see our 10 man crew take a backseat to flex raiding for the sake of getting more people in. There's also the scaling factor, which nobody really knows how it's going to work. The consistency of the difficulty in 10 man is much more appealing.

As a second group, I think it's a great idea. It can help the main raid team fill in gaps and otherwise gear up other individuals/alts. And give less experienced raiders a chance to see actual mechanics (I hope) and get some practice. Rather than yawn through LFR without really even having to deal with the fight mechanics.

There's no way I'd be able to consistently make both groups. Hard enough making all 3 raid nights as it is. So if I have to choose one I go with regular raiding and just flex when I can on off nights.

[Soulard]

I think that the best option would be a combination of the two ideas before me. I think that focusing flex is a bad idea but I also think that ignoring it is too.(not to say that is what nags is meaning but it could be inferred from it)

I believe we should have T,W 10 man content and Sunday be flex raids if we have the man power, reg 10 man if not. I do like the idea of being able to fall into flex raids if we have not a great sign up for the night.

One reason I would like to go this route is that I feel it will be more easy to get more ppl signed up for sundays, rather than a week night.

And lets face it, odds are we are going to hit a wall in the 10 man group the first few weeks, so having sunday to power through something that is hopefully a bit more easy will help us to get more gear for the normal raid.

Also I am about to post about what I think about the end of 5.3. Long Story short I want to immediately move into 5.4 content regardless of if we have downed lei shen. We can always come back later to him if we want that 12/12 mark that will be outdated by 5.4

[Rodcet]

Doing flex raids will also give you better ideas on mechanics and strats for the bosses.

[Donbot-Dunemaul]

I would consider flex raids an incredible teaching tool for us to use to help get everyone up to speed on fights, and raiding as a whole, but not a viable replacement for our normal raids. From the blue posts and flex raid descriptions, I am gathering that the overall fights will be easier than your normal 10 man raid, but not idiot mode like LFR tends to be. Meaning, you need to know what you're doing, but if you fuck up it doesn't necessarily mean a wipe is going to take place.

I like the idea of normal on tues/wed and flex on Sundays, since Sundays always seem to be harder to fill. I also agree that we should move directly into the new raid once 5.4 goes live, even if we haven't downed Lei Shen.

One last quick note that I just found:
"We’re in the process of developing a new Flexible Raid system, which includes a new difficulty that sits between Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, while still allowing friends, family, or pick-up groups to play together."

Since it follows the per person loot system, as we close in on filling two groups we may also have the possibility of doing 1 normal raid group and 1 flex raid group on the same night and just PUGing the last 2 or 3 spots. Just an idea.

[Nagram]

It's going to be gated like LFR. So don't plan on jumping right into flex in week one. We may not see it for a while.

[Requisitions]

Well I was planning on returning back into raiding with the flex raid concept. I know I can't speak fully for Lionseye but I was going to hop into whatever group he formed with the flex raid idea and go from there. You guys have your core group and it really is kinda set to that group alone. I mean you sometimes have a spot here and there but its format is pretty well set. So I guess where I stand is I will seek flex raids as an option of raiding besides just LFR with who I can, preferbly with raid, but I know that core group would prefer their content and their level. It shows more so on the days you dont raid, all the core group players are hard to find online at all.

[Requisitions]

Also want to add that if you set a day, Sunday probably is the worst possible because I would think that if you want to fill a flex raid, Sunday is right before server reset and therefore you will have a lot of raiders saved to PUGs so if you are setting Sunday, you better have the signups well in advance, do it on an earlier day or just stick to 10 man groups. Just like trying to find someone to tag with you in LFR, the longer the wait the less chance you will have someone.

[Gerish]

Im down to do all forms and sizes of raiding. I have been a raid lead for various guilds since WotlK and am 100% down with leading the elusive second team if needed. I just like killing things and watching purples explode out so throw me at bosses and im happy.
-Phraxx/Weliktar

[Nagram]

Phraxx... You spelled "through" incorrectly. Fix your sig bro.

[lionseye]

Well, I just don't want "flex" to be ".....those guys." The retard group. I hope we get more people who are interested in both forms of raiding. I do know that people can make X but notY days, it happens. But I would really love if we can do set days like the 10man group. As for what Val said, the 10 man core team is pretty much that "core group." What I'm trying to say is, I want Flex to mean something to the guild. We are known on the server for being 10man badasstitude. But would love if we can get some Flex love. I want to see if people are actually excited and want to do it. Luckily, it's not like normal where it's first come first serve, you signed up late or you aren't pulling your weight, buh-bai. But I would love if we can get a flex raid sign up. I kind of rambled on here, sorry, probably made no sense, but I'm trying. I hope too see some Flex love here soon <3 Taco

[lionseye]

Also, I hope we get more feedback in this thread, I want to start getting an idea of who wants to go and when.

[Soulard]

I am curious as to why ppl think there is a "core". Other than a few progression night, like 3 total so far. It is always first come first serve. The only ppl who are always there is myself and the tanks really. a few of the healers are there a lot but not 100%. I just dont know where this mindset of we have a core came from

[hordemaster2]

I would like to do Flex raids on alts if possible, but I wouldnt be able to go if i'm going with the main group.

[Nagram]

The "core" group I would say is considered to be those who regularly sign up. Typically the same 5-6 people seem to always be in the raid. Then there's the other 5-6 who seem to come and go.

Then there's the other bajillion people who don't raid or sign up that may involve themselves should there not be a hard cap on who can go because of number of people or gear/experience requirements.